Welcome back to Your Favorite Movie, where we say a friend's favorite movie's title three times and watch it come to life.
This week, we got together with Tory R****. I met Tory back when she was roommates with Hannah D*** at the old Beechwood Street off-campus house. I was technically roommates with Tory when I moved into that house the following summer, but only for two weeks, because of the whole bed bug fiasco (the less said about that, the better, I think). But anyways, that was over a decade ago, and I'm still friends with Tory, and I am really appreciative of that fact.
Me and Tory and a whole bunch of other jabronis got together to talk about Beetlejuice, Tory's favorite movie of all time. It's a late-'80s love letter to B-movie horror flicks, and it's fucking weird and wonderful, and really fun to discuss.
Yeah, like I said, it wasn't just the two of us talking about this movie. We conducted the interview at the now-annual La Salle Friends Poconos trip, and the babies were all asleep, and the adults were all drunk, and we all sat around the table and bullshitted like we would with or without an audio recorder.
A bunch of previous and future Your Favorite Movie alums are included here. Let's see... Matt, Tory's boyfriend, was there. Pam was there, of course, only because Willow gave her a brief break. You remember Frank and Courtney from last week. Stephan is back in another bullpen role (we'll get to his favorite movie eventually), and Allison is back too in her first appearance since Wizard of Oz. Hannah—she of aforementioned off-campus housing, and the future Clueless interviewee—adds some insight. Drew was even more Drew-like than he was with There Will Be Blood. We said Howard Stern's name three times, and Dwyer appeared out of thin air.
I think that's it! I transcribed with permission from everyone, and honestly, I didn't do much editing for this one. I felt like this interview, in all it's confused glory, perfectly captured those moments in your life, when you're all sitting around one room, with good friends and with beer, trying to one-up each other, getting progressively drunker, shooting the shit and having a blast. So, people leave the conversation, or enter late, or come back later, and the flow is a little off, but I left it all as is because this is how it always is when we get together. I love it. Enjoy.
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Joe: We'll definitely get into why this is your favorite movie, and what are some of your favorite parts of this movie. But I wanted to start first with an issue that I had with the movie? And this is... I don't know if it's snobbish, but I felt like a lot of the portrayal of the afterlife was... illogical, I guess? Which is silly to say about a movie like Beetlejuice. I was thinking maybe thought that related to what I actually believed about the idea of an afterlife in general. So I was curious about what your thoughts about the afterlife were. If that's not too ridiculous a question to ask about a fucking kids movie from the '90s... '80s? Late '80s.
Tory: I... so I don't like how people are looking at me. [laughter] I'm just going to say that. So I'll start with that. And I'll keep going. I loved how they portrayed the afterlife. I liked it mostly because of the whole... the old woman with the hole in her throat, who died from smoking disease. Juno. She's a great character. And also, she's a legendary screen actress as well.
Joe: Who was that?
Tory: I don't know the actress's name, but the character's name is Juno. And I like the idea that it's ambiguous, and it's creepy, and I think that's an overarching theme as to why I like this movie. What was your problem with it? Does your religion come into this at all? Like, a heaven or hell?
Joe: I guess... So, first off, I had some logic question about how the afterlife in Beetlejuice actually works. Like, why can Lydia see the Maitlands, and no one else can? They don't make that clear.
Pam: Um, I think they do make that clear.
Joe: Please.
Pam: She reads in the manual, and it says, "Live people often ignore the strange and usual... and I myself am strange and unusual."
Tory: That's the only reason she can see them.
Pam: She considers herself part of that culture and all that.
Joe: Okay... sure. I'll accept that. Why couldn't the Maitlands move on? Why were they chosen to be ghosts, versus... whatever else there is? I'm just... I guess these could be rhetorical questions.
Tory: Because it was... untimely?
Frank: They weren't finished with the house, right?
Joe: Is that what it is? I guess I didn't think about it that way.
Frank: They were going to finish the house, and they wanted a family. They get a kid in Lydia.
Tory: They're not ready to cross over.
Pam: They have unfinished business. God, Joe, you know nothing about ghosts, do you?!
Stephan: That's why I really like Beetlejuice, and it's what makes me get kind of emotional at the end of the movie. They get to be this "perfect" family. The Maitlands die without having a child, and Lydia has this terrible family, but in the end, they unite, and they get to have that family.
Pam: It's a happy ending. The Maitlands and the Deetzes can coexist at the end.
Joe: Alright. I kind of feel like an asshole. I didn't get any of that from this movie. Is that just because I only watched it once with a critical eye?
Hannah: No, it's because you're an asshole. [laughter]
Joe: True.
Tory: Because I was so young, watching this movie, I wasn't looking at those questions, like, "Well, this doesn't make sense." This movie was a huge part of forming my conceptions about other-worldly things. And it was done in a way that was captivating, and not like "oh so scary," so I didn't become afraid of x, y, or z. The movie was more fascinating to me, and had me really fixated on the idea of ghosts in general.
Joe: Do you believe in ghosts?
Tory: Yeah, I do. And I did a lot, as a kid. To the point where it was crippling for a while, because I couldn't go to sleep.
Joe: Because of Beetlejuice specifically? Or in general?
Tory: I don't think it was just because of Beetlejuice. For a long time in my childhood, "ghosts" was a huge fixation. And I was really drawn to horror movies in general. I know Beetlejuice is such a multi-genre movie. Even though it had an adverse effect on me, I really liked it.
Joe: Have you ever seen a ghost?
Tory: No. I used to have recurring dreams, though, that felt so real that it almost felt like something like that.
Joe: What were we talking about last night? With Lamson.
Tory: Oh yeah, around the fire.
Pam: What, at Woodstock?
Joe: Yeah, and I had told my roommates that they weren't allowed to tell you about it. [Editor's note: Sure, I'll link to the video here. I thought it was dumb then, and so I'm not going to rewatch it now. You'll have to let me know how it goes.]
Pam: The Woodstock ghost! But we'll save that for after the interview.
Joe: No, I think I'm interested in, ya know, does your belief in the supernatural affect your ability to appreciate this movie?
Pam: I think with a lot of people who believe in ghosts... I have a friend who says she can "see spirits," but she's like, "Anyone can, you just have to be open to it," and if you're not open to it, you're not going to see them.
Courtney: I think that's just seeing shadows. [laughter]
Pam: I mean, I don't see them, this is all from my friend.
Joe: But you are open to it.
Pam: I think I'm too scared to be open to it. [laughter]
Joe: I was just looking at myself, like, I liked the movie, but it wasn't... I wasn't head over heels about it—
Tory: But when did you watch it, though? Because I watched it at an inappropriately young age. Do you remember?
Joe: I don't think I watched it before I met Pam. So the first time was within the past ten years.
Tory: Oh really? That makes a difference in any film you watch.
[Editor's note: A bit of a cut/edit here. As far as I can tell, Stephan may have slapped the bag while sitting around the table? I don't know, everyone is talking on the audio recording. Let's just pick up a minute later, when the hubbub dies down. I'm pretty sure that Tory is talking about the patterns on her boyfriend Matt's clothes at this point.]
Tory: It's very Beetlejuice-y.
Matt: You're just seeing this now.
Tory: I am seeing this now. The straight patterns, the stripes. [To everyone else] I'm just looking at his gym shorts now. Speaking of costumes, Geena Davis' costumes in that... and I think Alec Baldwin reminded me a lot of my dad. The big glasses, he's super skinny. Certain colors remind me, in the afterlife. Remember the person who's sitting next to Beetlejuice, she's this kind of sexy... maybe like a fairy or something?
Joe: The chick that's cut in half?
Tory: She's cut in half, yeah! [laughter]
Joe: Oh yeah, that whole thing, yeah.
Tory: Certain colors, and little things will remind me of the movie so quickly.
Stephan: Tim Burton does a great job with that, across his movies.
Tory: Edward Scissorhands, and Batman Returns.
Joe: He's definitely a visual director.
Tory: And the graphics in Beetlejuice, that was a big part of it. It was 1988, but it was intentionally done in a cheesy way.
Joe: Burton was being nostalgic about the B-movies that he used to watch. Pretty cool! We actually talked about it last week... I was curious as to whether it was the same stop-motion animator as some other movies. We watched Steve Zissou last week, and that was the same stop-motion animator as Nightmare Before Christmas. It kind of reminded me of that, how it was a little choppy...
Tory: And the Pee-wee series, I don't remember it super well, but there has to be a lot of stop-motion in that as well. He did that before Beetlejuice.
Frank: Tim Burton was an animator.
Joe: So did he do the stop-motion animation in Beetlejuice?
Tory: I don't know. [Editor's note: Henry Selick, who did the animation in Nightmare Before Christmas and Aquatic Life with Steve Zissou, did not do the stop-motion animation for Beetlejuice. There are a whole bunch of people credited for animation for this film, and I've never heard of any of them, because I'm not that guy.]
Joe: I meant to look it up. Me and Pam expressed confusion over the different spellings of "Beetlejuice" in the movie.
Pam: It always confused me that they spelled it "Betelegeuse."
Joe: Apparently when it's spelled "Betelegeuse," that's the name of a star. And then "Beetlejuice" was just a marketing thing.
Frank: They chose to spell it phonetically.
Joe: In the credits, Michael Keaton is billed as "Beetle Juice," with a space and a capital-J.
Tory: Really?
Allison: That's a weird choice.
Pam: Before you told me all that, the star thing, I thought it was that he spelled it "Betelegeuse" because he wasn't actually allowed to tell them his name. Like, when he played charades, he was like, "I can't actually say it."
Allison: That was my assumption too.
Joe: That was another logic question, maybe you guys can clear it up for me. You say his name three times to bring him to life. But then why were they trying to say his name to kill him? At the end.
Pam: To put him back in, I guess?
Tory: I don't know if that's because there were so many differences between the final script and how it was originally written. There were just things that you can't justify in the revised script? He was originally much more demon-like in the first one. [Editor's note: You can read all about how the script was written at Consequence of Sound. And, if you want, you can read the actual original "horror film" script at Daily Script. I didn't read the whole thing, because I'm not a crazy person, but I skimmed, and it does seem like Tory was accurate in her assessment.]
Joe: Do you feel... I don't know if this is a "gotchya" question... Do you feel like it was weird that an adult was trying to marry a female child—
Tory: Yes! In the first draft, he was trying to fuck her! It was very clear.
Joe: Well, the "gotchya" part is that this daughter, her stage father was arrested for child pornography.
Pam: Jeffrey Jones.
Tory: I didn't know that.
Pam: Mr. Rooney!
Tory: Wow.
Joe: Obviously, I watched and enjoyed Beetlejuice. After Beetlejuice he was in Deadwood, which is my favorite TV drama of all time. So, I'm not going to say, "Oh shit, Jeffrey Jones is in this? I'm not going to watch it anymore." But do you think that this is something that we should consider? That there is a known criminal pedophile in this?
Tory: Was he known to be a pedophile during production?
Joe: No—
Allison: Are you trying to cancel Beetlejuice?!
Joe: I'm not!
Pam: I'm still going to watch it.
Joe: I'm saying that I will watch Beetlejuice, I will watch Deadwood. I will watch Ferris Bueller.
Frank: The interesting thing is that Deadwood was after he got arrested.
Joe: Right. So maybe that's even worse. But I'm saying, unequivocally, that I'm not going to stop watching Deadwood.
Tory: Are you asking me if that would affect me watching this in the future?
Joe: Yeah, I'm asking if that's something that you consider, if someone who's a shit person is part of a project... what's your thoughts on that?
Tory: I don't think it affects my thoughts of this movie. It's not like I'm watching Beetlejuice every week. You know what I mean? If it were something like Deadwood—or some other show, I've never watched Deadwood—or something...
Joe: Or anything. How about listening to Michael Jackson song?
Tory: Yeah, I dunno.
Joe: What's your thoughts on that? I'm just curious.
Drew: Oh god.
Joe: If you've never thought about it, then that's fine!
Tory: I have, but not in a way that I had to seriously consider or change my own behavior.
Joe: And it's tough!
Tory: In the case of Michael Jackson or R. Kelly, these are not artists who had a profound impact on my life anyway. Neither has Jeffrey Jones, to be honest. So I don't know... So far, there hasn't been an artist in my life who has done anything like that after already impacting me. So I don't know. Thankfully!
Drew: How convenient.
Joe: How about you, Drew?
Drew: Jumping in on this interview...
[Various people around the table mutter "Oh god..."]
Frank: It's not a podcast Drew!
Joe: You're already yelling enough, you don't have to lean into the recorder like that.
Drew: You've brought that up on many, many of the interviews. If the person is a shithole in real life, can you like the art.
Joe: But I can't I be interested in what Tory thinks?
Drew: That's not what I'm saying.
Joe: Oh, I thought you were complaining that I bring it up so often.
Drew: Well... I am. [laughter]
Joe: I'm talking to a different person!
Drew: If this artist is the person is an asshole in their personal life, can you still like their art, is the question.
Tory: Where that affects me more directly and more recently is Fred Armisen.
Stephan: Oh, just yesterday, right?
Joe: I didn't hear anything about this. [Editor's note: Not sure if there was a specific news story that the gang was referring to here. Google News didn't show much from 2019. I guess if you're interested in allegations against Armisen, you can read this article.]
Tory: I think it was Sam who said, "Did #MeToo catch up with Fred Armisen?" There were some rumblings in the past, from Elizabeth Moss. I don't know why that doesn't affect me that much?
Joe: That's okay if it doesn't.
Tory: Maybe you can make that decision between someone who I like and admire and...
Joe: It might have a lot, like you were saying, a lot to do with how much the person had to do with the art that was created. Jeffrey Jones just put in some hours, and yelled at his step-wife. But, like, if Michael Keaton came out as a rapist, then it might affect your view of this movie differently. I dunno... It's something I think about a lot. I don't mean to dump that on you.
Tory: And I think my short answer is that it doesn't change my consumption of media. Like, with Fred Armisen...
Joe: Yeah, what were the allegations? No one has said it yet.
Stephan: Apparently, there was...
Tory: He was abusive, in certain ways?
Joe: Domestic abuse?
Tory: Yeah.
Joe: Was she living out Handmaid's Tale in her own home?
Stephan: And I don't know if it was physical or emotional.
Tory: It sounded like it was just emotional, I don't think there was any physical...
Stephan: But definitely big enough to be a problem.
Courtney: Elizabeth Moss has talked about it, but no one has ever addressed it completely. Which is crazy! Because Elizabeth Moss is so well-respected.
Joe: Um... Let's talk about something lighter! I listened to some of the Beetlejuice musical! It was fine!
Tory: I have not.
Stephan: I don't like the lead guy. I'm really sad because I really like Beetlejuice—I know, this is your interview Tory, I'm sorry.
Tory: No, this is good!
Stephan: I really like Beetlejuice, and I really like School of Rock. And this guy has a effectively killed two musicals that I would've really liked. I just don't like his voice, and just don't like his acting style. He's just not good enough.
Joe: He affects his voice, though, right? In Beetlejuice?
Stephan: Not by much. If you know the singer, you can pick out his voice. I just don't like his voice. I don't think he's that good. I will say, he's great in the—we talked about it earlier in the weekend—the Co-Op episode of...
Allison: Documentary Now!
Joe: Can't watch it! Produced by Fred Armisen!
Stephan: He's not in the episode. But if it was produced by him, I guess we're boycotting...
Matt: Where do you draw the line?
Tory: If there's just some involvement, where do you draw the line?
Joe: I think every person has to draw their own line.
Courtney: Louis C.K. produced...
Joe: Better Things?
Courtney: No, what was Tig Notaro's show?
Joe: Mississippi, or something?
Courtney: Mississippi or something [Editor's note: One Mississippi], and she straight-up did an episode about a boss jacking off in front of the wife in a meeting, in the most inappropriate way. [Editor's note: More info about this here.]
Drew: But is that the response now? If Louis C.K. is credited in any aspect of the show, you have to cancel the show?
Joe: I'm not saying that!
Courtney: I think that that was an interesting scenario.
Drew: Is that the appropriate response?!
Joe: Everyone has to make their own choice.
[Lots of over-talking here, and also yelling in the background. Doing my best here.]
Tory: I think that Tig Notaro had him on... I would trust her judgment. I'm a big Tig Notaro fan, and Louis C.K. was one of the producers, you said?
Courtney: Louis C.K. actually got her the show.
Tory: At that point, I would kind of default to—I'm sure she knows a lot more than I do.
Courtney: She has cut off ties with him. He produced the show, and it was in the second season that all this stuff came out. But this had been a known thing that he was doing for a while, and she just kind of chose to ignored it. And then she had to address it. She addressed it by making this episode, and not apologizing for it. It had to be aired. It's very uncomfortable. It's clearly about him.
Joe: So... have you watched the Beetlejuice TV show?
[laughter]
Tory: No.
Drew: Yes, I have!
Pam: I believe he asked Tory, Drew!
Tory: Wait, I want to go back to something... can you [Matt] share your experience that you had at the theater?
Joe: Your boss jerked off on you?
Tory: Can you tell it? I want to go back to the Beetlejuice on Broadway. This summer...
Matt: I'm trying to think of his name...?
Joe: The guy who Stephan hates?
Tory: No, from Kimmy Schmidt. Titus! So he came to IB [ImprovBoston], he was in Boston for something, and... you tell this story.
Matt: I don't know why he was in Boston. He was shooting something, wasn't he? And he ended up at a bar with one of my teammates, my teammate was the bartender. But he was just there hanging out, and Titus showed up. My friend told him, "You should come to see mainstage at IB," and he was like, "Okay." So my friend tells us all backstage that Titus is coming to the show, and we're like, "Yeah... bullshit." We start the show, and he's there. After the show, he came up to me and told me that I should be Beetlejuice on Broadway.
Drew: Toot toot! [laughter]
Allison: I was waiting for that story to take a really dark turn. Like, "Oh no, we have to cancel Titus now?!"
[laughter]
Courtney: "I actually don't want to hear this story, because I really like him?"
Tory: "And he started jerking off in front of Matt."
Drew: "He lured me into his van, and said, 'If you tell anyone else, I'll kill you.'"
Hannah: Were you [Tory] like, "I'm just realizing for the first time that I'm fucking Beetlejuice"?
Joe: If you say Matt's name three times, he cums!
Drew: Prove it!!
[laughter]
Tory: But this did happen. And, I didn't realize who was playing Beetlejuice at the time, so I went on Instagram, and was like, "Oh, I see it even more." Not to say you look exactly like the guy... But he was very complimentary of Matt in general! He even asked for your contact information.
[At this point, a picture of the guy from Broadway is brought up on someone's phone and passed around.]
Joe: Oh shit, looking at the picture now, you definitely... holy fuck.
Pam: Don't you remember, we watched the Tony performance?
Joe: I guess I did recognize that opening meta number while listening to it the other day.
Tory: I saw the picture, and I was like, that's who's on Beetlejuice right now?
Joe: Do you feel like a Lydia?
Tory: No, I don't.
Drew: You're more of an Otho. [laughter]
Tory: No. God, and the cast, everyone on that cast, from the early '90s and beyond, were such big figures. And still!
Joe: Me and Pam were going through how many of the actors in this movie are now on currently-Emmy-nominated shows. Pretty much all of them. Even Jeffrey Jones was on the Deadwood movie.
Hannah: I think the "Beetlejuice look" is very iconic, and it's interesting how much they toned it down on Broadway.
Tory: Thank you! Yes.
Matt: It's more regular dude-looking.
Tory: And that's what I don't like about it.
Joe: Oh yeah, I read that Tim Burton wanted Sammy Davis Jr. to play Beetlejuice?
Pam: What?!
Drew: Uh, he can do it all!
Tory: And it was still 1988, he still would've been really old.
Pam: Michael Keaton was perfect.
Drew: I would argue that that was Michael Keaton's most interesting performance.
Joe: Could anyone do that? Or was that specifically a Michael Keaton thing?
Drew: Jim Carrey, maybe.
Matt: I mean, it's so not... Michael Keaton I don't see as a character actor. If you think about, like, Jim Carrey playing in that role, it would've been completely different. But they gave it to a non-character-actor guy, and it's like, "Woah!"
Drew: It's fascinating.
Courtney: You don't think he's a character actor?
Drew: [yelling] No, he was fucking Batman!
Stephan: It feels like a Robin Williams character.
Joe: Right! I was going to say it reminded me of the Genie from Aladdin. Right?
Drew: You don't think of fucking Michael Keaton as manic. You think of Robin Williams or Jim Carrey that way.
Tory: Which is why it's so much more brilliant. I don't know what his career looked like before that. I know he was Batman after that.
Drew: Tim Burton, same director.
Tory: That's also one of my favorite movies, Batman Returns.
Matt: She does love that movie.
Joe: Would Keaton be nominated for an Oscar for this role if it was released today?
Tory: No.
Drew: No!
Joe: Everyone is shaking their heads no.
Pam: Probably not. It's kind of silly.
Joe: It's not a "prestige" film. It did go one-for-one at the Oscars though!
Tory: Best Makeup, right?
Pam: I'm surprised that the score wasn't nominated, because it's pretty iconic.
Drew: Danny Elfman, right?
Tory: It is Danny Elfman.
Stephan: He did a lot of the Batman scores.
Matt: If you close your eyes, they feel kind of the same tonally, and they also sound the same.
Joe: Never seen Batman.
Tory: Really?!
Joe: I'm doing this project because I haven't seen movies.
[A long Batman discussion ensues.]
Joe: I'm definitely cutting all this Batman shit!
[More Batman discussion.]
Stephan: And guys... Prince did the soundtrack for the first Batman!
Drew: And Seal did Batman Forever! [sings "Kissed by a Rose"]
Joe: Alright! Alright! Let's get back to it. I know the Beetlejuice sequel has been officially shitcanned. I don't think that's going to happen, though it's been talked about for the past thirty years. But what could you see as the Beetlejuice 2 plot?
Tory: I haven't thought about it, because I haven't wanted one.
Joe: Ah, that's interesting.
Tory: I never want sequels.
Joe: You don't want to ruin it.
Tory: I don't want reboots or sequels.
Joe: A reboot would be shit. Just a different actor playing Beetlejuice? C'mon.
Tory: But what would be an interesting angle for a sequel?
Joe: I think it would be interesting for Michael Keaton to still play Beetlejuice, and to have him come back into our world—
Tory: And maybe help Lydia with her marriage to someone else?
Drew: I like that!
Joe: No. I picture it as Beetlejuice struggling to be as obscene as he was in the first movie, because our world is already more obscene than how Beetlejuice was in that movie. So, he's like, "My job is to be an asshole, but the president is more of an asshole than I am. How can I exist as 'Beetlejuice' in this world?"
Tory: Wow.
Drew: I like the marriage idea.
Tory: A more sitcommy thing, right?
Joe: That's kind of how the TV show was, right? I mean, they weren't married...
Pam: It was weird, because Lydia and Beetlejuice were friends.
Tory: I would like a world-exploration, not character-based, in a sequel. We go back to the afterworld, and all the sandworms, let's explore that.
Joe: A whole spin-off about the sandworms?!
Tory: Sure! And the other deceased people in that office. I don't want to see Beetlejuice himself again, necessarily. He could come in as a cameo, or come in periodically. I don't want to see the same people.
Pam: It definitely would be interesting to see all that again, because there are so many questions. Like, you [Joe] had all these logic questions, maybe that would explain some of that.
Stephan: The animated series—I don't know how much they flesh it out—but from what I remember, they focus a lot more on the sandworm stuff. Again, it's been a really long time, but it actually kind of makes sense how they use it. It seems like such a throwaway thing in the movie, almost as if they had the technology for the animation, and they wanted to use it. Whereas in the animated series, they use them as a tool to tell stories. I think that would be really interesting to explore in the sequel.
Joe: Would it make sense that the Beetlejuice character from Howard Stern would star in a sequel?
Pam: He's dead!
Joe: Did he die?
Dwyer: Did Beetlejuice die?
Joe: Here comes Dwyer, our resident Howard Stern expert, at the exact right time!
Pam: They called him "Beetlejuice" because—
Joe: Baba Booey! Hey Baba Booey, we're recording you, watch what you say.
Dwyer: Okay.
Pam: The reason they called him "Beetlejuice" was because his head was really small, and he looked like the shrunken head guy from the waiting room.
Joe: Ahhhh, okay. But I'm interested in Dwyer's personal opinion about the Howard Stern character Beetlejuice.
Dwyer: He's dead, dude.
Joe: That's you personal opinion of him?
Dwyer: Yeah, I really don't know much about him.
Pam: He was like the best member of the "Wack Pack," or whatever they called them.
Tory: Can I go back? Do you guys ever—
Joe: Yes, please, let's get off the Howard Stern thing. Go ahead.
Tory: Do you guys ever look at a covered bridge the same way?
Joe: Are you always afraid of going over a covered bridge?
Tory: Always. I've never looked at a covered bridge, outside of the city, and not think of Beetlejuice.
Joe: I have friends who got married on a covered bridge.
Pam: It was a red covered bridge too.
Joe: And they are... still alive.
Drew: Did anyone else find Alex Baldwin unrecognizably young? Whenever I see him in this, I think, "That's Alec Baldwin?" He looks like a different person.
Tory: Yes! Looks just like my dad.
Pam: He looks very... spritely? And Geena Davis, she hasn't aged... great.
Joe: She was pretty hot in GLOW.
Drew: Prove it!
Joe: ...You want to see me jerk off to season 3 of GLOW?
Drew: Yes.
Joe: Okay.
Tory: A League of Their Own was just a couple years later.
Pam: That's one of my favorites too. She's so beautiful.
Tory: She's in her late 20s in Beetlejuice?
Drew: At the time, she was already an Oscar winner, The Accidental Tourist, in 1987. [Editor's note: Actually 1988 fuck you Drew!!!!!!]
Dwyer: Joe, you have to show Pam the movie Private Parts.
Joe: We are so past the Howard Stern part.
Pam: Is that it for the interview?
Joe: No. Tory, do you remember the first time you saw Beetlejuice?
Tory: I don't know if it was the first time, but it was at least one of the first times. I was in the living room of the house I grew up in, from my early childhood. And I remember it being one of the first things I ever watched that I thought, "I should not be watching this." That, and Saved by the Bell.
Joe: How old were you?
Tory: Probably five. I remember it being whenever I went to Pre-K. Definitely not older than six.
Joe: And you remember being self-aware, like, "Maybe this is too old for me"?
Tory: I remember feeling uneasy. And then watching it later—a little older—and being like, "Oh, I've seen this before." And still uneasy, but now it's more interesting to me.
Joe: I always feel like it's important question to ask when someone says that they "grew up with the movie," ya know what I mean?
Tory: I think I saw a lot of movies around then, because I didn't have much parental supervision around that time. You can get away with a lot, and this is one of those movies. I remember seeing the sandworms, and I think I started to have a recurring dream about it.
Joe: I know Pam saw this at a similar time in her life.
Pam: I don't remember the first time I saw Beetlejuice, but it the first time I ever cursed was because of Beetlejuice. I had also watched it at a very young age, and I was sitting in the car with my dad, and said, "Nice fucking model!" [laughter] He was like, "What did you say?!" And I didn't know what it meant! And then I wasn't allowed to watch Beetlejuice anymore.
Tory: Did he know you had watched Beetlejuice?
Pam: Yup, because the next time I went over my Aunt Sharon's house, she was like, "What do you want to watch?" and I said, "Beetlejuice," and she was like, "Nah, you're not allowed to watch that movie anymore." [laughter]
Joe: So, does the fact that you watched it at a young age, and you felt that about the movie, do you get any... not "sense of satisfaction," but... do you appreciate it more now, in a way that also makes you appreciate how you've grown?
Tory: Yes. Even as an adult, I view it differently every time. I take it in differently. After a long gap, when I'm like, "I haven't seen this movie in forever," especially a movie like this, being so visually distinctive. You just keep going back and seeing it in a different way.
Joe: Would you say this is a nostalgic thing?
Tory: Yes.
Joe: I always appreciate—and I've said this before in other interviews—but when you watch something at an early age, even though it might not be the perfect movie, it can still be a movie that means a lot to you, because it reminds you of that time in your life.
Tory: And that whole sandworm thing! It's very funny that you [Pam] remember that too.
Pam: I had just watched it last week, and then like two days later, Joe was like, "We're gonna talk about Beetlejuice with Tory." Pure coincidence. I love this movie.
Joe: So, do you feel like we satisfactorily talked about why this is your favorite movie? Or do you want to talk more about it? I'm not gonna ask you straight-up "Why is this your favorite movie?" because I feel like we covered that in the normal course of conversation.
Tory: No, thank you.
Joe: Do you feel like we've touched on that enough, or do you want to elaborate?
Tory: I think we have covered it. I think it helped that it was kind of a collective interview, with other people bring up certain points and cultural relevance.
Joe: No, that was good.
Matt: Can I ask something?
Joe: Oh yeah, please.
Matt: When you say Beetlejuice is your favorite movie, or someone brings up Beetlejuice and you say, "That's my favorite movie," is there a specific part you're referring to?
Tory: No. I think it's all the factors of when and where I saw it, and why I saw it for the first time, the first several times I saw it. And how it informed my tastes. It was such a collective experience. Saying, "because of this character," or "because of this scene," like, I can't narrow it down.
Matt: I don't mean like that. But when it's brought up, is there a specific part of the movie that you visualize, or something that comes to you first?
Tory: Oh.
Matt: Like for me, when someone brings up Star Wars, I think about the music. I hear it when I'm talking about it.
Tory: Hmm.
Joe: Probably the sandworms, right? [laughter]
Tory: I think of the afterlife scenes. I think of Beetlejuice turning into the snake. I think of the covered bridge, and them dying. It's a patchwork of scenes and feelings that come over me. Not many other things do that for me. If you say certain things from childhood, songs or music from movies, there are very few things that are representative of a broader way that I feel.
Hannah: How old did you say you were when you watched this?
Tory: Five or six. And then, I just remember, I watched it whenever I could. I feel like it was on TV a lot? It was always on cable pretty consistently. And then, it was my introduction to Tim Burton in general, and that... my entire life, I've appreciated his work.
Joe: It's definitely a recurring motif in these interviews, when people choose their "favorite movie" based on what they've been intimate with for the longest amount of time. And that may be flaw in asking people about these movies...
Hannah: But that makes it more interesting, because then you're learning about the person.
Joe: Yeah! And we definitely learned about Tory today.
Hannah: I was interested in how old you were because I think about... I had forgotten about this until we started talking about the movie. It came out in '88, which was when I was born. You saw it a couple years after that, but it was talked about how this was like a "magical world" for all of us. Because we were young, and we saw it through that lens. And I was wondering... who actually liked this movie who wasn't a kid? [laughter] Because my babysitter introduced it to us. My babysitter was a fucking psychopath. She was definitely a goth, but also a crazy person, and she loves this movie. I was like, "Oh my god, she loves this movie." Who would've? She put my barbies in the microwave for ten seconds, and they caught on fire. [laughter]
Joe: Oh shit, this was your babysitter, when you were younger.
Hannah: Yeah.
Joe: I thought you hired this person to watch Maggie. [laughter] Wow.
Hannah: I just remember thinking, "Who likes this movie?" Who would like it that wasn't five, or however old we were?
Joe: I mean, is that why this movie has staying power? Because only five-year-olds were watching it then, and now they're older?
Hannah: I dunno. I just remember thinking that she was a fucking psychopath, and she loved this movie.
Tory: But it was great! Because it was so crude, and so crass—obviously the Beetlejuice character—and it brought up some really uncomfortable subjects. I couldn't imagine watching it if they had made it with the original script. I know it was supposed to be a lot less comedic, and instead more like a horror movie. Which I would really love to fucking see. I loved watching scary movies growing up. But I dunno, that's a great question.
Stephan: I wonder—and I could just look it up—but I wonder if this movie, if it flopped, and then the reason it has longevity, is because it appealed to our generation.
Hannah: Because it's so silly.
Stephan: Like, "Oh, look at this Tim Burton film..."
Joe: So our grandkids are going to be like, "Beetlejuice is such a senior citizen movie"?
Drew: I'm going to find out what the gross was.
Stephan: I feel like a lot of Tim Burton's early films are like that. I love Edward Scissorhands—once Christmastime comes around, I always watch it—but when I really think about it, it's not a movie that, if it came out now, I'd be like, "I really want to see that," or even think it's objectively good. It'd be like, "This is just a shitty Johnny Depp movie."
Drew: [looking it up] Beetlejuice did okay at the box office. It had a fifteen million dollar budget, and grossed 74 million dollars. So it made back five times its budget. It did fine. It wasn't a monumental catastrophe. It did good.
Stephan: But, objectively, it's not a "children's" movie. It is designed to be a little more edgy. Definitely not a "family film."
Pam: On the DVD we have, it has the trailer for the movie on there too.
Joe: Oh yeah! It did kind of make it seem like a family romp.
Pam: It made it seem like a family film.
Matt: Do you think they were changing the tone to trick people into seeing it?
Joe: I don't know. It was definitely like, "Come see this wacky family! Who moves into this house! And all kinds of hijinx ensure! And here's Michael Keaton doing a dance!"
Hannah: I guess I was trying to ask, was my babysitter supposed to be showing this to me? Or was she truly a psychopath? Oh, and she also, by the way, sprayed my inhaler around the house, put on my dad's old gas mask, and pretended that I had farted so badly that she had to kill the smell with my inhaler.
Courtney: That's an abuse of medicine!
Pam: This explains a lot about Hannah D***.
Hannah: Kelly was...
Joe: This is on the record.
Hannah: That's fine. She's not doing well right now.
Joe: She's not reading Puke on Your Birthday?!
Stephan: I did have one legitimate question, that might have been brought up. Do you feel like the movie was misnamed? I really like Michael Keaton, and I think the character of Beetlejuice is cool, but I feel like it's kind of a misnomer. The movie isn't really about Beetlejuice.
Joe: He was on screen for like 27 minutes of the 98.
Stephan: The movie is about Lydia, and her evolution.
Joe: So this is a good opportunity to bring up something that I missed. The studio agreed with you, Stephan, that maybe it was too specific. And they wanted to call it House Ghosts.
Tory: Oh my god. No.
Joe: And Tim Burton was like, "What the fuck? No!" So he, as a joke, suggested Scared Sheetless.
Matt: I'd watch that.
Joe: And the studio took it seriously, like, "Maybe we should call it that." And Burton was like, "No no no, I was joking, I'm calling it fucking Beetlejuice."
Drew: Does anyone have any commentary on—
Joe: Hold up, hold up, hold up.
Drew: It's about the title though!
Joe: Okay. Fair.
Drew: That the spelling of—
Everyone: We already talked about that.
Drew: Oh. Okay. I missed it. Sorry. I'm wasted. You can delete this from your transcription.
Joe: I will.
Pam: Nah, keep it in.
Joe: Yes! Payback for the burp!
Tory: I dunno, it's like, who do you remember the most from this movie? Isn't it aptly named when you think about it that way?
Stephan: But I feel like I only know—and this is a weird thing to say—when you mention "Beetlejuice," I think of the animated version. I know that Michael Keaton played Beetlejuice, but when I think about the movie, I can't help but think of Lydia.
Tory: Other things, yeah, that's fair.
Stephan: Again, I do quite like this movie.
Drew: He's so memorable, though. I don't think people see the movie Beetlejuice and then think, "Why the fuck was this called 'Beetlejuice'?" It's what they remember from this movie, Michael Keaton as Beetlejuice. Despite the fact that he has limited screen time. It's not that far-fetched to call the movie "Beetlejuice." Obviously, he's not the main character, but...
Joe: He packs a lot of character into the moments that he has.
Drew: Yeah, like, he's what people remember from this fucking movie! People aren't like, [in a whiny voice] "Why the fuck did they call it 'Beetlejuice'? I don't get it?"
Joe: You're directly talking shit on Stephan right now.
Drew: Sorry. [laughter]
Joe: When you asked that rhetorical question in an obnoxious voice? Like, Stephan literally just asked that question. [laughter]
Drew: You can always just cut this out.
Joe: I'm including everything!
Pam: I think one of the best scenes in the whole movie—and one of the best scenes in any movie—is the dinner party scene. And Beetlejuice really has nothing to do with that scene.
Stephan: And that's why I ask a question like that. When I think about this movie, I think of "Shake Senora."
Pam: And them going, "We can get these people out of our house without Beetlejuice."
Joe: So Beetlejuice is the villain in this movie?
Tory: Yes.
Pam: Definitely.
Joe: What's a non-horror movie named after the villain?
Drew: [indecipherable]
Pam: What?
Drew: Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Menace.
Joe: Wait, but the "Phantom Menace" was the kid, though.
Everyone: No.
Drew: It was Darth Sidious.
Stephan: It was Darth Maul.
Drew: It was Darth Sidious, and he was the true villain of this movie!!
Joe: ...Okay.
Tory: But the dinner scene! [laughter] That's another reason why I love this movie, because as I got older, things started to resonate differently with me. I couldn't see a Jean Moreau sculpture or painting or whatever, and not think of this movie. It's not something that I had knowledge of as a kid. And you start to make these connections.
Pam: Guys... let's go have a séance.
[various people start singing Harry Belafonte songs]
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